Indifferent took us through the styles and strategies within his Cardboard Refuge as well as describing hardship and regrowth in his local area in NZ… and we found out the connection.
There’s lots of soul in the tunes, it’s unmistakable, something ‘live’ about it.
Cheers, glad you feeling it. Yeah there’s definitely some live elements in the production.
I was pretty determined to get away from the heavily-polished production style of D&B that is so prevalent. I wanted to create something ‘looser’, more fun and warm.
So I’d been using some analog synths in parts of the tracks to support the more classic breaks and samples I’m using.
The analogue synth sound is amazeballs, but often can’t be programmed through midi so I had to record it live to get it. I think the live recording keeps it slightly off-quantised and helps develop the looseness and more fun vibe of jamming.
This experimentation is tangible… what things inspire you in general?
My home and studio is in the country, nestled in the hills near the sea on an extinct volcano.
The inspiration and support I get for my creative process from this landscape is invaluable to me. Traditionally I am an art painter and this foundation also helps me stay on top of my creative process which can often be a challenge. But to be honest it’s always sound that inspires me.
Music is so diverse today it’s insane.
Even out where I live we’re continuously listening to different genres and styles of all music, trying to find rhythms and sounds and textures I can somehow work into breakbeat format.
I’m obsessed with the background sound artifacts in recordings and often am inspired to work with and recreate these barely noticeable noises behind my music.
And what music inspires?
Production is great as it opens you up to really listen hard to all different types of music and production to find inspiration. I focus a lot on percussion rhythms and am constantly adding to my library of world percussion and breaks.
It’s been great for me that there’s this retrospective look at jungle and rave music of the 90s about. I’m finding a lot of good musical technique in these styles.
Returning to jungle has been a great way to find some rest and pauses in sub bass rhythms – allowing bass patterns which keep moving and resting, making for a more fun, bobbing party vibe instead of a pommelling bass that wears you down.
The classic sounds and breaks of jungle and 90s are so distinctive everyone recognizes them and gets on board.
So take us through the fab title tune, I love it.
It’s funny: ‘Cardboard Refuge’ has really grabbed some people and not others – it’s getting great traction from many playaz I respect but then one friend who doesn’t listen to electronic music told me it made her think of a dog barking at a television.
Great visual image I thought.
Conceptually the idea was about how we often retreat into nostalgia and memories to find comfort, but these are really in our mind and this draws you away from reality, the present. So it’s like a temporary shelter, an illusion of safety or refuge.
Tell us more about refuge?
Our local city of Christchurch was destroyed in 2011 by a massive earthquake which left many people homeless so this image of living in cardboard boxes was present in my mind, and also how we cling to our memories of places we had in the city.
Musically the song had originally started with some references to Rufige Kru, but over time drifted away from that. I wanted to develop a slower, lazy feel that would fit in with some of the halftime I am playing. It took quite a lot of work to mix down, I wanted this contrast between very busy sections and suddenly very minimal phrases, and getting the busy parts to sit well was tricky.
How has your local D&B fabric changed as a result?
Our local scene took a bit of a beating after the earthquake, we lost our infamous Ministry nightclub and other larger venues. It feels like it’s getting back to some sense of normality now, and I’ve seen some amazing nights with the help of promoters BassFreaks and local D&B troopers.
The earthquake changed the scene for some time into smaller, more intimate parties of multi-genre music playing to mixed crowds. So the beats were pretty unclassifiable at these gigs in that way; DJs were mixing different styles of more chilled music and you couldn’t rely on a crowd to support tunes you throw at them simply because they were loyal to a genre.
The explosion over the last two years of D&B to encompass halftime, 160 bpm, juke and other styles of breakbeat has been great.
Takes us behind ‘Boom Shackle’?
‘Boom Shackle’ was something that came together pretty quickly. Originally it was part of some basic demos I was trying to get a junglist in Tokyo to record some vocals over, through a friend in Japan. The vocals fell through in the end, but the track was sounding quite solid already so I kept at it.
I’d used a more dancehall-like kick to suit the junglist and keep it bouncing along, and I used maybe four different classic jungle sub basses; 808 kicks and some terror reece samples. I recorded each sub bass track live one at a time, trying to think about leaving as much space as I could.
I think the end result was this nice sub bass interplay, switching back and forth between them with plenty of pauses that remind of jungle bass rhythms.
In the end I replaced the vocal spots with a sample from a documentary I’ve used a few times: it’s set in New York underground and all the vocal samples in it are great. Every third sentence is “Ya know what I’m sayin?” I love it.
Who are your musical heroes?
I love D&B because it encompasses so many different styles! Artists such as Alix Perez, dBridge and Om Unit, and I’m loving the Moresounds dub flavaz.
I have much respect for a fellow kiwi Moses from Need For Mirrors. He was pretty inspirational for me to get away from the over-produced sound: smashing out tunes that have a live, analogue feel. Very minimal, rolling, warm and just fun!
How did you and the free love digi people hook up?
Mate I am loving what Quentin Hiatus and the Free Love Digi crew are doing. I had been looking for a label for sometime that I felt would support the directions I wanted to go in the future, and at the same time was diverse enough in their D&B spectrum.
I make a lot of different styles of D&B at the same time so this was pretty important to me, and I was pretty upfront about this when I started to talk to Quentin. He sent me over a copy of the Versus compilation to listen to, and I was very impressed with the diversity on it, but also the quality of mastering across all the different artists tracks on the release.
So I signed the ep with FLD and Ross Atic did an amazing job mastering my tracks for the EP.
All the other artists on the label have been so welcoming and the promotion insane so I am stoked to be part of the FLD team.
You mention terror reece. Tell us a terror tale.
A few weeks ago we went away to a three day party in a ski lodge next to an alpine lake. I woke up late and pretty hungover and had missed my ride up the mountain. I figured that my 4wd would get up there ok with no chains but halfway I started sliding in the ice, and people were yelling at me.
I had to shamefully and very quietly turn the vehicle around, trying not to slide off the narrow road and to certain DEATH.
I acted all cool but inside my heart was pounding! I probably only got through it because I was drunk still.
What’s up next from you?
Heaps. We’re having an ep launch in a month or so, I’m really looking forward to that. Studio wise I’m deep in an experimental phase at the moment, creating a mess and then slowly diggin my way out of it.
I’m trying some different things out – some tropical bass and Latin-influenced vibes and some flat jungle for playing out. I’ve just had a new female vocalist come in over the weekend to lay down some lyrics for upcoming tracks, and I’m working on another ep for FLD.
Also there some tunes coming out soon on another label in the UK.
Any shouts?
A big ups to my partner Josie and my daughter for supporting me and giving me my studio time, and those continuing to support me – Cafe Dread and Little Acts, Bassfreaks, DJ Justabout, Tektite, Cadogen, and anyone else. Chur chur!